I have always been of the impression that Satan and his demons would be forcefully ejected from the heavens at the beginning of the last days. Is this correct? If not, when does this occur? I have been reading and re-reading Revelation 7:1-17 and it appears that it is possible that this is actually the first piece of "business" once the kingdom has been established in the heavens following the "martyrdom" of the holy ones.
The reason I have drawn this conclusion is some wording in this chapter of God's Word. Chapter 12 verses 8-9 describe the battle and its outcome. Verse 10 announces the actual coming to power of the kingdom and verse 11 tells us who defeats the Devil and his demons. It says "And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. This seems to imply that this battle happens after Satan has dispatched of the remnant of the "holy ones" on earth and after they have been resurrected to the heavens. Is this correct? And if not, could you please explain?
If I am correct in my assumption above who are the "remaining ones of her seed" that the dragon goes off to wage war with in verse 17? I look forward to your answer.
The ouster of Satan and the demons takes place after Jesus is given his kingdom. However, the 12th chapter of Revelation reveals that there are actually two separate war campaigns that immediately follow the establishment of the kingdom. First, Satan and his demons wage a furious but losing battle against Michael and his angels and are subsequently thrown down from heaven to the lower regions of our earthly sphere. Once confined to the earthly realm the demons then go off to wage war with the remaining sons of the kingdom – that is the second phase of the war.
As for the duration of the war against the holy ones, the 11th and 12th chapters of Revelation, as well as the 7th chapter of Daniel, indicate that God allows a specific period of three and one half years for holy ones to be persecuted and eventually martyred. That period of time is designated as the “time of the end.”
Of course, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the war in heaven has taken place already; however, e-watchman presents numerous reasons why that cannot be the case.
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Wednesday, June 14, 2006
Some Insight on Revelation Chapter 12
Indeed there are "two separate war campaigns" in Revelation chapter 12. However, it does not appear that these two wars take place after the establishment of the Kingdom or Christ's coronation. The war in heaven between Michael and the dragon seems to be an immediate prelude to the establishment of the Kingdom of God with Christ as King. After that the marriage of the lamb and bride class of 144,000 anointed followers takes place. –Revelation 19:6-9.
As these things begin to unfold, there is reason for "joy" in the heavens, whereas there is "woe" for the earth at the announcement that Satan and his angels have been cast out of heaven and confined to the vicinity of the earth. Then the dragon and his angels go off to persecute and wage war against the remnant. They (the remnant) die as martyrs and are resurrected to life in heaven where they are seeing by John in vision standing on Mount Zion with the lamb. (Revelation 14:1) They are victorious because they maintain their integrity to God even in the face of death. –Revelation 12:11.
The war being waged against the remnant culminates at the Armageddon war after their death, resurrection and marriage to the lamb. Then Christ comes as King of kings to shepherd the nations with an iron rod. But at what point is Christ crowned King? Was it 1914, the end of the so-called gentile times?
Since the Scriptures say that “Michael fights with the dragon,” it follows that Jesus is crowned King after his fight with the dragon. First, as Michael the great or “foremost prince,” he clears the heavens of Satan’s malicious presence. Then Christ is immediately crowned King by his Father, Jehovah, who has long promised to give him the “nations as [his] inheritance and the ends of the earth as [his] possession.” (Psalms chapter 2) The war in heaven is followed by shouts of joy and the announcement:
“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”
We have been taught by the Watchtower that the war in heaven took place in 1914 and that Christ was crowned king at that time. It is evident that since the nations did not mass together as one against Jehovah and his anointed at that time, the war in heaven and Christ’s coronation could not have taken place back then.
In addition Satan’s “short period of time” will no doubt correspond to the actual “appointed time of the nations,” during their actual massing up into the 8th and final king of Bible prophecy; after having sustained what appeared to have been a “death-stroke.” (Revelation 13:3) The appointed time of the nations is a 3½ year period as shown in Revelation and Daniel. –Revelation 11:2, 3; 12:6, 14; Daniel 7:25; 12:7.
The longer seven prophetic time period or 2,520 years from 607 BCE – 1914 CE is another story. It’s not the appointed time of the nations as contrived by the Watchtower. It is a piece of the puzzle weaved into the Kingdom theme that permeates the Bible.
If the Watchtower’s 1914 chronology is of any use to us, it must be understood that this chronology points to the removal of the bands of iron and copper from around the stump of the symbolic tree dream given to Nebuchadnezzar. The tree well represents the Davidic dynasty that was cut down by this Babylonian king. It is being restored in these last days as evidenced by the birth of the “man child” in Revelation chapter 12. Meanwhile the nations have been given an extended lease to continue to do as they please. –Daniel 4:27; 7:12.
Thus, 1914 brought us closer in focus to the theme of God’s Kingdom, as in the birth of the infant Jesus in relation to the birth of the “man child.” Just as Jesus could say to his contemporaries that “the kingdom of God is in your midst,” likewise this statement is even more apparent for us today living in the last days, which may have very well begun in 1914. (Luke 17:20; 2Timothy 3:1-5) However, Christ’s coronation is still a future event, occurring at an hour we do not know. Therefore, that makes it more of an urgent matter for us to “keep on the watch!” –Matthew 24:32.
Thursday, August 31, 2006
Who are the "remaining ones of the woman’s seed" that the dragon goes off to wage war with in Revelation chapter 12 verse 17?
In the book of Revelation John saw in vision the dragon going off to wage war with the remaining ones of the seed of the woman. It should be noted that this event is scheduled to take place during the “time of the end, the conclusion of the system of things or the final part of the days.” The “great tribulation” is the marker that will indisputably indicate that we have reached that tumultuous period of time.—Matthew 24:21.
The remaining ones are the last of the anointed congregation of Christ who are alive during the great tribulation. They will find themselves under the vicious attack of the dragon, who in the guise of the scarlet colored wild beast will also wreak havoc upon the whole earth. Daniel identifies this beast as the king of fierce countenance.—Daniel 8:23.
The remaining ones or holy ones are not taken out of harm’s way during the tribulation. They die as martyrs, but they come off victorious because of their unflinching faith in the face of adversity. They take part in the first resurrection. In this regard, Paul contemporaneously referred to the remaining ones when he said the following as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17:
“For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord.”
So Paul’s statement here is applicable to a future time, during the Lord’s presence, when Christ will be gathering his chosen ones, past and present. That is why the apostle says that “we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord,” an obvious reference to the first resurrection. –Revelation 20:6.
The remaining ones must go through a refining process, just as their predecessors. (Malachi 3:2-3) Christ may have staged this cleansing and faith-strengthening process, which must take place in his spiritual temple, when he overturned the tables of the robbers and moneychangers in the physical temple. (Mark 11:15-17) In addition persecution and tribulation serve as fiery trials for the perfection of our faith. (John 5:20; Hebrews 5:8-9) No doubt, the great tribulation will prove to be a final period of sifting for the anointed remnant. Afterward, the blessing of all the nations may commence, as promised in the Abrahamic covenant, starting with the great crowd of Armageddon survivors that John saw coming out of the great tribulation. –Genesis 22:18;Revelation 7:14.
CG
when satan wages war against the remaining seed and uses the 8th king to Kill them, what becomes of the great crowd who survive the tribulation,? how do they resist the mark of the beast after the annointed are caught up to heaven?
Is revelation 13v10 relevant to them?
the gathering and survival of the great crowd during the period of the annointed witnessing work and their subsequent survival does not seem to be highlighted in revelation apart from being spoken of at rev7:9.
sorry -more of a question rather than a comment
Tuesday, November 14, 2006
It would appear that people who do not obey the laws of the 8th and final king of Bible prophecy would find themselves in a captive condition. Otherwise they would have to flee and hide in caves and dens of the earth as was the case with Elijah. Of note, shortly prior to the tribulation that overtook Jerusalem in 70 C.E., those who heed Jesus’ warning fled to the mountainous regions of Pella. People who pick up the sword in defiance of the 8th king during his short glory will apparently be killed. So as shown in Revelation 13:10, those who fall into captivity will have to endure, as they maintain their faith in God. If the apostles were not under Jesus’ watch, think about what would have happened to Peter when he drew and used his sword against the high priest’s servant? In any event, Jesus said that those who lose their life on his account will gain it back. The object lesson here is that the remaining ones of the seed of the woman and the great crowd will resist the beastly 8th king by means of their faith and endurance. That’s why John saw them in vision dressed in white robes standing before the throne of God.
I hope that answers your question Elihu.
CG
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